Curse

Rizzen Khalazar · May 17, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I agree with the OP.

I have nothing else to say, he is right on. And also about the last sentence.

Dreamsmith · May 17, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

The game designers have been completely honest, despite how many people have tried to twist was they said into untruths.

In many games, someone who has played 1000 hours will always and easily beat someone who's only played 500 hours, but be always easily beaten by someone who's played 2000 hours (who in turn will be pwned by someone who's played 3000 hours). Whoever played the most wins. End of story.

Guild Wars is not like that. That DOESN'T mean and NEVER DID mean that you are instantly competitive with anyone 30 minutes into the game. What it does mean is that once you do finish building your character, in a relatively short period of time compared to other games (100 hours, probably less for many), you're competitive with anyone. With only that 100 hours under your belt, you have a fair shot at beating Mr Thousands Of Hours, because skill is the deciding factor at that point, those extra thousand hours he's played don't present an insurmountable barrier against you beating him. At best, they mean he's had some more time you find the best equipment, but not more than slightly better than anything you've found, and in fact not at all better than anything you can probably buy in the next 15 minutes if you pop into Lion's Arch with a bit of cash (which you'll have more than you know what to do with by then).

That is what they promised, and that is what they've delivered. If anyone misunderstood, hey, sorry, but they didn't lie, you just assumed they said something other than what they did.

The game's been out less than a month, and people are already whining about how difficult the endgame is and how much grind there is. Come on, people, you wouldn't even have a clue what the endgame is like if this game had much grind...

S{R}Raptor · May 17, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

For Gods sake man find someone that has done the thing before and let them help you. Join a Guild and let them help you. This is not a "do it your self game", it is a team based game. You can do it alone, but you need to be dang good. I am not haveing to much difficulty and this is my first RPG to play but not my first RTS. If you really want something easy make a warrior/monk and go for it. Warriors are easy to play and the monk will give you the ability to heal yourself. Play through the game first if you must this way so you know what has to be done, then come back with a different character. I did that in Gauntlets Ledgend for N64, and yeah it was a grind but i knew what i had to do and how to stay alive.

Soul Monarch · May 17, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

That is what they promised, and that is what they've delivered. If anyone misunderstood, hey, sorry, but they didn't lie, you just assumed they said something other than what they did.

Very well said! Yet another good point by Dreamsmith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romac

That's just waaay too much of a time suck IMO.

Correct: In your opinion.

I'm not trying the slam/flame you here, but lets be honest: What, really, are you paying for here? Do you want a 40 hours game for your 50$? Because I tend to think that getting more game for my money is good.

If your opinion differs in this, that's okay. But maybe you'd have more fun ina different game then, yes?

Furious Surearrow · May 17, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

you know, these topics have been done to death.

There will always be someone who thinks this game has problems. I've been very impressed with it so far, and haven't been spending a huge chunk of time playing it.

I'm not anywhere near as far as the original poster, and have had to redo missions and I would rather be doing that then walking through it without any challenge.

Agree to disagree and move on. The one thing I really thought was ridiculous was claiming that the game designers "completely lied"

You're entitled to your own opinion, but making such a general and malicious statement is not likely to get you either much sympathy nor help.

You can always read the reviews prior to buying the game. It's not guaranteed that you will like it.

jdwoody · May 17, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Monarch

I'm not trying the slam/flame you here, but lets be honest: What, really, are you paying for here? Do you want a 40 hours game for your 50$? Because I tend to think that getting more game for my money is good.

If your opinion differs in this, that's okay. But maybe you'd have more fun ina different game then, yes?

I think alot of people are missing the points of people who prefer PvP. They want to play for hours and hours just like the PvE people, it just they prefer to to PvP for those hours and hours. I haven't seen many complain about getting to level 20, and really not a whole lot of complaining about runes. Elite skills on the other hand are a grind in the "traditional" sense of the word. I'd like to get my monk Word of Healing which means I have to go through Elonas Reach over and over and over again. I've run through half that mission 8 times now, it takes me about 20 minutes to get to where he "might" be. There is very little skill involved, but I've been very unlucky and only caught him there twice and both times I was unable to capture. It isn't really fun, and I don't want to ask my guildmates to suffer through it with me so I suffer along with henchmen.

That being said for me it's not too bad as I enjoy the PvE, but I can understand why some people are upset...

Soul Monarch · May 17, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdwoody

I think alot of people are missing the points of people who prefer PvP. They want to play for hours and hours just like the PvE people, it just they prefer to to PvP for those hours and hours.

No no! I'm with you 100% on that point! I think the PvP only folks ought to have everything unlocked if that's all they want.

So far this thread seems to revolve around the fact that he didn't like the PvE set up much. At least, he hasn't said anything about only doing his PvE stuff to unlock PvP options. Even if all people want is to unlock all the PvP stuff, there isn't any reason to make the PvE game any different. Just let people have their PvP stuff, and leave the PvE game alone.

Romac · May 17, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Monarch

If your opinion differs in this, that's okay. But maybe you'd have more fun ina different game then, yes?

this is a suggestion section.

nowhere did i say this game sucks, nor do i hate it. I am communicating an aspect of this game that i find very, very frustrating. If devs are interested in finding out what frustrates their customers maybe they'll see this thread, agree with me, and put it on their list of tweaks. probably not, but that is what this section is for.

if you have the time, maybe you could open every thread in this section and say "maybe you'd have more fun in a different game then yes?" or maybe you already did.

Romac · May 17, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furious Surearrow

The one thing I really thought was ridiculous was claiming that the game designers "completely lied"

it's called a sensationalized headline designed specifically to grab the attention of whomever arena net pays to browse these boards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furious Surearrow

you know, these topics have been done to death.

There will always be someone who thinks this game has problems. I've been very impressed with it so far, and haven't been spending a huge chunk of time playing it.

HELLLO!!! what the hell is this section??? did i post in the wrong section or something??? i thought this was the suggestion section???

mods please move this thread if i managed to post it in the wrong section.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 17, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

i just have to say this: how the heck did you get so far as a casual gamer? I played 12 hours on the first day and at least 4 or more every day since... and i ONLY just got through ascension.

I've come from UO and the thing is that UO you need to spend hundreds of hours just to be able to hit a darn dragon with your sword. Now that is grind. Yes it gets annoying if you have to redo something but heck, even in singleplayer games if you don't save every 3 seconds, you're always gonna make a stupid mistake at some point and either have to reload and retry, or return to a spawn point somewhere and retry. The missions are no different to any other game really.

If anything comes close to a grind, its gathering materials for the top armour, and if you salvage most stuff right from day 1, you don't ever have to deliberately go out to do that either.

Romac · May 17, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Monarch

So far this thread seems to revolve around the fact that he didn't like the PvE set up much. At least, he hasn't said anything about only doing his PvE stuff to unlock PvP options.

i like pvp but i'm primarily enjoying the pve atm...i plan to do a ton of pvp whenever i can get my toon completed. My whole point isn't that all pve is too hard...i think that 90% is perfect as far as difficulty. there's just those few missions that many people, including myself, seem to bang thier heads against over and over and over, and that i find it very, very frustrating.

thunderhead, elona's, thirsty river, fire islands are the ones that make me have to debate whether i want to play my main and be frustrated, or play and alt, and be wishing i was playing my main.

I don't think the designers want their players to feel like that, and i'm suggesting they tweak these missions slightly to make them less of a time suck...they can still make them very difficult without having them take 4 hours to complete.

ManadartheHealer · May 17, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

What you want is an easy, push-over time in PvE where you get everything you want immediately. And, obviously, this will happen in no game. So, if you do not like spending time playing a game, go do something else.

What I do, on the missions (not the quests; quests are usually shorter), is the day I do the mission if I don't want to spend too much time, I ONLY play the mission. And if after one time you lose and it takes an hour, chances are it will take at least and hour the next time. Just use common sense and quit if you think it might take too long for your taste.

The game is not a "breeze" (that takes EVERY OUNCE OF FUN OUT OF IT), but it is nothing too impossible for the casual gamer. If anything, at least the designers didn't completely lie. Maybe for some of the most casual gamers it is still too much, but it is still better than most...

And if you still don't like it, nobody can help you (at least for this game)

Soul Monarch · May 17, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romac

if you have the time, maybe you could open every thread in this section and say "maybe you'd have more fun in a different game then yes?" or maybe you already did.

*checks carefully*

Actually, no, I haven't. I wasn't trying to be rude, and I'm very sorry if you thought I was.

I do still agree that people shouldn't be forced into a grind if they don't want to be. I was attempting to point out that I believe PvE to be an entirely voluntary portion of the game. (Or at least should be, if it weren't for the 'unlocking' thing.)

Kind of like Ninja Gaiden or something. I know that game was tough enough that a few folks I know just dropped the controller and said to hell with it. It wouldn't really be correct to say that the game was too difficult though. A huge amount of play testing and feedback goes into these games, and the game ends up being only as difficult (or easy, respectively) as the developer wants it to be.

Once again, this was only my feedback to your suggestion.

Romac · May 17, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

i just have to say this: how the heck did you get so far as a casual gamer? I played 12 hours on the first day and at least 4 or more every day since... and i ONLY just got through ascension.

I already addressed that on page one:

Quote:

no i'm just more efficient with my time.
The way i've played my toon after pre-searing was to basically do as many missions as i could back-to-back, then if i ran into a harder one i'd go back and do whichever quests i wanted. I've eventually done nearly all the quests possible anyway...that's one of the things i do when i get stuck on a mission like this and i'm waiting around for the weekend. I also never group with people for pve unless i feel it's absolutely necessary so i'm not spending half my time looking for groups or failing because of crummy pugs when i could have succeeded with henchies. I'm not hardcore, but i do have about 4 hours per day to play if i get up at 5am to queeze in an extra 2 hours. My wife also just took our daughter for a 3-day weekend so i bought a couple of sixpacks, drank beer, and played my ass off for about 3 days...went from 15 to 20 in three days.

So I'm in the fire islands primarily because i'm efficient, not because i'm hardcore.

Since efficiency is important to me you can see how i find killing the same thing over and over and over quite frustrating. If i invest 4 hours in one mission i'd hope to be able to successfully complete it. And i don't mean 4 hours solid...i just don't have large blocks of time like that to play. I play 2 hours in the morning, 1 hour in the afternoon, and another hour in the evening.

Witchfinder General · May 17, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

I have a full time job, wife, toddler and baby. A new house to take care of and new yard to sod, add an irrigation system to, build a fence etc..

I am lucky if I get to play 2 hours in a night (every other night is more likely). I find the pace just fine. I am now at krytan(sp?). I don't have a problem and don't consider that I was lied to. I have 3 characters in their teens. I have never played a BWE or even seen the game until I bought a copy of it.

I have not spent any where near the kinds of times you are suggesting on missions. I have only had to go for a second try of one mission. Not really sure why you are having such serious problems.

As to you saying:
"easy for you? Please go start a thread asking the devs to add a "hardcore" mode for all you uber gamers and leave this one alone."

If you don't want a subject debated go find yourself an empty room and agree with everything you say and pat yourself on the back. You won't achieve anything, but at least everybody will agree with you.

Witchfinder General · May 17, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romac

this is a suggestion section.

nowhere did i say this game sucks, nor do i hate it. I am communicating an aspect of this game that i find very, very frustrating. If devs are interested in finding out what frustrates their customers....

And people like me and some others are here to make usre that the devs clearly understand that you are not a majority; nor an accurate representation of the totality of their customer base. But you don't seem to want anybody that disagrees with you to post in "your" thread.

Perhaps you should write a letter directly to the developers?

BahamutKaiser · May 17, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Newbie - Definition - Romac.

Compared to MMORPGs this game bears nothing in the amount of time it takes to enjoy or complete objectives or gain. The idea behind "pick up and play" is that you do not have to wait for others to even start playing, which is a massive difficulty in other games, having to wait for 1 to 3 hrs just to find a group and START playing, if you even find someone to party with that day at all. This game eliminates the absolute neccessity of party memebers, and provides henchmen to stub as party members in the case that you do not wish to, or cannot find a group to enjoy the game with.

If the Developers had made a game entirely consisting of 1 hr or > missions and quest then it would be a total failure, many players (and I speak for myself here) enjoy enthraling gameplay and extended adventures, and having only short undeveloped adventures and medial tasks to preform would make the game completely undesirable to play. There are plenty of 10 minute ventures to gain a skill or beat a small "boss", making all the quests, missions expecially, that short would ruin the game and make it too easy to play.

If you want to play a console RPG where you can save your progress after every battle then you have that option, this game is designed with outstanding gameplay and entertainment, if you want to breeze through the game with superlative ease then you oviously have no appreciation for effort nor the ability to enjoy involved gameplay, for which I suggest that you stick to D&D so you can "assign" difficulty as you see fit (which is none at all oviously).

I'm sure you were to lazy to read this whole statement, since you oviously don't merit the time to develope and idea, so I'll impart the abbreviated version. Cram it up your ***.

Jackell · May 17, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

It seems like everytime you get stuck on a mission, you come here and complain that it's a grind.

A difficult mission is a grind? Ok.

I guess the last boss of Half-Life is a grind.
Oh, or a couple stages on Halo 2.
Or hell, the rides during half life 2.

Or anything hard that you loose at is a grind.

Difficulty is not grind. Difficulty is difficulty.

Grind would be killing 10000000 charr to get 1% of a level, or another $100 to your new weapon that you may be able to afford in three weeks. Not being stuck on a mission because it's hard.

Xoduz · May 17, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

The OP has no clue what grind is.

That being said, the original post makes me feel good knowing I beat all those missions first try!

Btw, word of healing is okie. I might also suggest peace and harmony if your a pure healing monk.

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 17, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

/agreed

This game is quite a time sink. End of story.

Anybody who actually has a job/ a real life, will certainly be able to understand the statement... of course this is not coming from me, ive spent countless hours on this game. cough.

My girlfriends starting to hate this game... it's taking up a "bit" of my time, it's my choice eh?